2-on-1: Making Sense of NHL Discipline

Every Monday during the season two of our hockey writers will debate one topic. It's the 2-on-1. This week Adam Gretz and Christopher Botta debate the bizarre, and at times, random, world of NHL discipline

Adam Gretz: So we're talking NHL discipline this week which seems to be one of the most controversial, and, at times, random topics in the NHL. In the past week we've seen Evgeni Artuykhin and Alex Ovechkin fingered for slewfoots, and only one be issued a suspension.

Is this as simple as preferential treatment for a star player, or are the plays that different that only one truly warranted a suspension?

Obviously the league felt there was something wrong with Ovechkin's foul as he was fined for it. League's looking the other way for star players (or creating rules to protect them) is as old as the games themselves; Heck, I remember a playoff game two years ago agianst the Rangers were Evgeni Malkin was guilty of an obvious slewfoot against Paul Mara and I don't even think he was penalized for it, let alone suspended. Frankly, I'm convinced there's nothing that any of the big three (Ovechkin, Malkin, and Sidney Crosby) could do on the ice to get a suspension from the league.

So, back to my original question: does Ovechkin avoid suspension while Artyukhin doesn't because of the name, or are the plays that different that only one is worthy of a suspension?

Chris Botta: I felt Ovechkin had two things going for him, Adam. He is the one player in the league -- yup, not even Crosby -- who some people will pay for a ticket to watch. I have three young sons. The one game they wanted to go to was Ovechkin and the Caps against the Islanders. (Okay, so somebody gave me comps, but my kids don't know that and you get the point).

He also did not have a major track record of serious incidents with the league. If he had a history of slew-footing or dangerous hits from behind, I think the NHL would have given Ovechkin at least one game (and broken my kids' hearts). The fairly-clean record and superstar status made it an easy decision. But now that's all changed. He has a history. If the errs again, the league has set the precendent with the fine. They'll have to suspend him.

That said, of course you're right stars are treated differently in every major pro league. The difference with hockey is there are very few who get this treatment. Some of the best players have never hurt a soul. Very few are true "stars" like Ovechkin and Crosby are.

Gretz: The "no track record thing" has always bothered me, and this isn't necessarily a star player thing, this goes for fourth-liners, too. It's almost like the league is saying, we'll give you one questionable play, THEN we'll suspend you for the next one.

Right? Or is that simplifying it too much? I just think If the play is worthy of a suspension one time, it should be worthy of a suspension every time, regardless of whether or not you've done it before.

Botta: Where the track record "free pass" comes in, I believe, is when the NHL court is not 100 percent certain of intent. If the player is not guilty beyond reasonable doubt (geez, I'm sounding like a Scott Turow novel), and he's never been involved in a similar incident before, he gets a slap on the wrist. I can deal with that. It's when a star is rubbing it in opponents' noses, acting like he's above discipline, that you'd be right to be pissed. I know this is not discipline, but it was amazing the stuff Michael Jordan got away with in the NBA. To me, that's the biggest example of a superstar getting his own set of rules.

I don't know if we have a case like that in hockey. For the most part, Gretzky didn't touch anybody. Of course, Gordie Howe did, but that was when the league was like the wild West. That's what makes Ovechkin and Crosby a good study over the next few years. They are legitimate stars, and they get involved physically - especially Ovechkin.

Keep an eye on Ovechkin the next few weeks. I talked to him Saturday morning. He was stung by the fine, no question. But on Saturday night against the Islanders, he was as physical as ever. By my count, he went after four Islanders after whistles.

Gretz: Fair point about not being 100 percent certain of intent. Moving on to the next one: Tuomo Ruutu was given three games for his hit on Darcy Tucker. Fair punishment? Too much? Or not enough? They tell you in Pee Wee's to not hit a guy in the back like that. I understand it's a physical game, but do we need to put stop signs on the back of player jerseys instead of numbers (and I'm only half-kidding ... I think)?

Botta: That was one I couldn't understand. Ruutu should have been nailed for at least twice that. I understand not every hit from behind is the same, but it seems Colin Campbell has been all over the place when it goes to discipline on those kind of hits. How can that only be three games? Didn't Ruutu intend to do exactly what he did? What did you think, Adam?

Gretz: Well, first of all, I think you could have stopped your sentence at "It seems Colin Campbell has been all over the place when it goes to discipline."

As for the play itself ... that's just a dangerous, dangerous play, and if you're really serious about eliminating these types of hits and plays -- and the league should be serious about that -- you have to send a stronger message than three games. I like guys to finish their checks, but that's just careless and reckless. I can't help but wonder what the punishment would have been had the roles been reversed, and Tucker, a player with, let's face it, a less than stellar reputation around the league had been the one dishing out the hit, how many games he would have been banished for.

The next night we had another player taken off on a stretcher as a result of a big hit. This time it was Florida's David Booth after Mike Richards blasted him coming across the blue line. Richards received five minutes and a game misconduct, but will not be suspended.

Right call?

It seems pretty clear to me that he didn't leave his feet and he didn't lead with an elbow, but he got him right in the head. Head shots aren't "illegal," but, man, that's a scary situation. Is that a good hit with an unfortunate result? Should David Booth do a better job keeping his head up? Or is that a player that needed some additional punishment.

This also opens up an entirely new debate as to what the league has to do (or should do) with head shots.

Botta: Until the league decides that head shots are illegal, it is what it is. You keep on hearing color commentators on TV say, "That's the kind of hit the league wants to abolish," but they haven't. As a result, the Richards play was rough and the outcome unfortunate, but it wasn't suspendable.

Funny how we got to this place in the conversation, Adam. I started off defending the league. By the end, I think the one thing we agree on is the league disciplinary system is erratic at best.

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

10-26-2009 @ 3:08PM

kfogs1957 said...

Can you imagine the uproar if someone had slew footed Ovechkin, or put a knee on knee hit on him like he did to Gonchar last year. I'm not about vigilante hockey, but Don Cherry is right. Someone is going to take this idiot ourt, and then I want to hear Bruce Boudreau and Cap Nation . It's a tough game, you don't need the cheap crap. In a perfect world, Ovie goes after someone and hurts himself while doing it. You don't see Crosby, Malkin, Savard, etc. doing it. The only two highly skilled offensive players who play that way are Ovie & Richards. It's going to be a short career for those guys.

10-27-2009 @ 10:14PM

Brian said...

funny,
i guess the whole crosby sucker-punching Atlanta's Valabik in the nuts last year just skipped over everyone's mind. watch it and try to tell me that's not dirty

10-26-2009 @ 4:26PM

Dave said...

Crosby,Malkin and Savard are pussies. They are afraid to do it. If Ovechkin played for a team in Canada Don Cherry nose would be sooo far up Ovie ass
that if he turned he would snap his nose off in his ass.

10-26-2009 @ 5:41PM

metsmaniac013 said...

I can't believe Ruutu only got 3 games, but if a cheap shot had to be made on anyone, I'm thrilled it was on Tucker. The way he goes after players, he deserved to risk something like that. Karma is a bitch, Darcy. I still haven't forgiven him for what he did to Mike Peca.

Also, Colin Campbell is an absolute joke. The first step to the NHL gaining respectibility back is firing that clown.

10-26-2009 @ 6:29PM

powdeerdtoastman said...

When someone lands a hit like Mike Richards's hit on Crosyb/Ovechkin/Malkin/Lecavlier/etc., then the NHL will make head shots illegal. Until then, keep your head up.

10-27-2009 @ 12:46AM

gtwright35 said...

i can't find the uTube posts, but there were a few "knee to knee"/slewfoots given to ovie during his career. It's def. an unfortunate trend. I am a life-long caps fan and an ovechkin fan but i can still call a dirty hit if i see one--dale hunter played dirty. i don't think ovie does so "intentionally" i think its a matter of his skating ability. I feel like another player would have been burned by gonchar but over kept with the play. Def. not a good idea.

10-27-2009 @ 8:57AM

I want to see the posts from all the Ovie Backers when he gets hurt by the same type of play, and you know it's coming guys. As for Savard, Malkin and Crosby being pussies, well, that comment does not even deserve a reply. If you are morally true to yourself, you know you'd take any one of those players if you had the chance Dave. Grow up and make a comment that has a little validity.

10-27-2009 @ 9:34AM

frieds17 said...

Kfogs is obviously just as bitter as Grapes is. I'm very curious as to what team youre a fan of? Ovechkin brings a game to the table that very VERY few if any players have ever brought to the game. That being a very complete game. He hits, he scores, he hussels, he's great with the media, and he's great with the fans. Knee to Knee on Gonchar? There's a reason why he wasn't called for it (his knees were inside his shoulders on a head on collision). And as far as "someone taking this idiot out"... Cherry has put a target on his back and has called for guys to take him "out" for the past 2 years and what has happened? NOTHING... Players respect him too much for what he brings to the game to give him a cheap shot (hints the Pearson award(s) voted by the players) and nobody has taken him out cleanly because he's too strong for everyone that touches him. So youre probably saying to yourself "look at this Ovie backer" and your right... i love the guy BUT i'm not even a Caps fan. I just appreciate what he brings to the game. I respect what Crosby, Malkin, and Savard bring to the game but if you only have enough money to buy one ticket to any game, youre headed to Washington and you know it.

10-27-2009 @ 10:11AM

Bitter has nothing to do with it. What this is, is precisely what you alluded to, getting the value for your entertainemnt dollars regardless of your team allegience.We all want to see a great brand of Hockey with the best caliber of player on the ice. Physical play is part of that entertainment, the Ovechkin situations I speak of are questionable at best. Ovechkin has incredible talent, he also has the penchant for playing a style of game that has taken prominent players off the ice without penalty or a price paid by him and/or his team. Ask yourself, where are the Caps without Ovie?? Yes they are talented, but take away 60 goals, and they are lucky to win their division when they are now an elite team. Thinking that the clock is not ticking if he continues playing that style is crazy. If someone else doesn't take a run at him, he can just as well hurt himself playing that way. Time will tell, but the guy is paid to score goals, all the other stuff is where he has put the target on himself. Cherry hasn't done anything Ovie hasn't done himself. By the way, if it matters in the context of this post, I'm a Boston Bruin fan.

10-27-2009 @ 11:06AM

Ovie's style of play obviosuly increases the risk of injury... but the guy has missed 2 games in the past 2 years, and that's because he decided to go back to Moscow to be with his ailing Grandfather. His head is always up and he always knows when someone is coming after him and 9-10 the other guy ends up on his back after trying to hit Ovie. But in saying that his physical play increases the risk of injury, you also have to take into account who he actually is and how strong he actually is (we are talking about a different breed here). Crosby doesnt hit squat and still seems to miss 15-20 games a year. Savy is out 4-5 weeks and he doesnt play the same style. I guess once/if Ovie's physical play diminshes his playing time due to injury we can have this discussion. and i ask who your team is because its typically the other star studded east teams i.e. the Pens, Rags (now with Gaborik and losers to game 7 last here at the hands of the Caps, and Philly... because theyre Philly) who tend to bash Ovechkin. You being a B's fan really doesnt apply because you all have a more round team as opposed to building it around 1 player.

And your right, if you take Ovie out of the Caps roster you take away 60 goals and a player who can change the game all by himself... but his supporting cast was built around him. But if you take away 1-2 goals a game from Ovie the Caps are still putting up 3-4-5 goals a game without him. If the Caps find some defense i don't think there's a question as to whom the beast of the east is.

10-27-2009 @ 1:00PM

pageninety9 said...

kfogs....how do you figure that Richards plays 'cheap-shot' hockey? This is the only hit I've EVER seen by Richards that was even close to questionable.

10-27-2009 @ 8:40PM

Dad said...

Gentlemen, your arguments are well thought out and reasonable for both sides. As I see it, This is a contact sport. Players are taught from an early age to "bring it" with everything and with bad intentions. Cliches such as "make them pay for every inch of ice" (or whatever the surface of the given sport)abound. I don't see that changing any time soon. In my opinion, with the over expansion of the NHL, the talent pool is thinned. Marginal players (players in my opinion that never would have made it to the NHL level 30 to 40 years ago, are here and playing. Many of them using the only thing they feel can keep them here...brute force and not skill. I think we can all agree that only a handful of teams can even put a fourth line on the ice for more than 3-4 minutes. The most irritating and frustrating thing about NHL discipline vs.any other major sport is the complete lack of consistancy. Dangerous and career threatening hits on players has to stop. That along with favored star treatment in all sports.No more free passes. you do the crime, you do the time.